02 Biblical Counselling & Discipleship - Part 2
Here, Angela Verreynne explains that, in the church community, we break counselling down into three levels. This episode will help saints figure out where they belong and gives some pointers for those stepping into the role of a biblical counsellor.
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In this video, I'm going to be talking about the three kinds or levels of counselling that can happen within the church community. Larry Crabb puts it out there and I really do see it amongst us in our church community. And I think it's actually very helpful to look at these three levels.
Because sometimes we can actually disqualify ourselves from having any kind of impact in this area because we're not an official counselor. I was chatting to a lady the other day who is the most kind, empathic, loving lady and who loves God and who has made godly choices her whole life.
And she just said, "Oh, no, I'm not a counselor." And by saying that I think she's underestimating the impact that she can have, in just being who she is, with someone who's really struggling. And the impact she can have on their lives as to the freedom that they can find, and the safe place that she can be for them. On the other side, someone who really does desire to grow in the skill of counselling and to be used in more complex situations might not see a place for themselves in the church. I really believe that there is one.
So, I would love to unpack that a little bit. Every single believer, as we were saying in the first video, is a part of God's plan to see people come into all that He's intended for them and to live lives that honor Him completely.
Level One Counselling: Loving and Noticing One Another
And so firstly, level one would be loving one another, bearing each other's burdens, doing the "one another's" that we spoke of before. This can happen in the context of friendship. It can happen in the context of meetings, community life, but what it takes is an awareness of another person's experience.
We can have a lovely, friendly church community that doesn't actually take notice of where a person is at and can stay on a relatively surface level of what a person is facing. And so a level one counsellor is somebody that really has a genuine concern and interest in where somebody else is at.
You can then swing to this intense kind of approach that's looking for counseling at every opportunity. That's not what level one is talking about actually ever—in any counseling situation. But actually, we encounter people in so many environments, and it's looking for hints of where a person is really needing encouragement, or their demeanor is different to normal, or they have maybe withdrawn a little bit, or they express often little hints to actually say, "I've had a bit of a tough day." The person who's really a level one counselor will say, "I'm hearing you. Tell me a little bit more about that." That is what I think is God's desire for every person: to show interest and concern.
What I want to do is something a little bit fun. I want to show you a video. In this video you've got somebody who is sharing something of what they're struggling with and some typical responses you might find. I would love you to number it down 1 to 10. Then I would like you to make a tick for "yes, that's a good response," and a cross for "that's not a helpful response." After that you're going to share that in your group.
You might need to press stop and watch it again. I would love you to share that in your group and then I would love you to identify which of those responses, positive and negative, you can actually own. Then ask someone else that is close to you, that you trust, "Have you ever heard me use any of those negative ones?" Share that.
"So Bella, how are you doing?"
"Yeah, I'm okay. This is not really one of my better days, but I'll be fine. It will be okay."
"You know what? We all have days like that. Isn't it good to know that all things work out for the good in the end?"
"Sorry to hear it sounds like things are a little bit down. Oh well, I hope things get better. I'm sure they will."
"Is it the business that's not going so well? Everyone's struggling at the moment. Is it the business?"
"I'm sorry, you're not feeling so good. Have you exercised? And quiet time? Exercise and quiet time always sorts me out."
"You don't look yourself. Would you like to talk about what's going on?"
"Sho, me too, eh? I have had a rough day. Can I tell you about it?"
"Is it the kids again? You and my kids are driving me insane lately. It's the kids, isn't it?"
"Oh Bella, it sounds like you've really had a rough day."
"You know what, Bella? I'll pray for you. I promise, I'll pray for you."
I wonder if you could identify yourself in some of those responses. And I want to encourage you to really be honest with yourself, specifically in the negative responses because that's how we learn. We sometimes have such well-meaning habits in the way we respond to people. We have well entrenched beliefs that are actually faulty. And the only way we grow is if we allow those beliefs to be challenged.
As I think about it, a belief that needs to be challenged is, when a person doesn't share and they're staying away, that they don't want someone involved. Sometimes people have so many blocks to reaching out for help that they actually need someone to go out and fetch them.
It just makes me think of Jesus going out to fetch the one sheep that's all on His own. Sometimes we have faulty beliefs that actually prevent us from reaching for people. You'll hear in one of the following videos, about the basic need of human beings is to have a sense of personal worth.
There is something incredibly powerful about a person feeling valuable enough to be sought out. A person being valuable enough to be heard, because what they've got to say is important to us. And we are willing to listen, even though the person might feel silly or they might feel it is inconsequential in comparison to the big problems of the world.
They might feel like there's so much bigger obstacles in life. But to feel valued is one of the basic needs of human beings. By us evaluating our own responses, we are able to grow and learn. Sometimes our responses can be so, in a sense, reflexive or automatic.
Things like, beginning to tell our own story. What about me? And then, where the person has shared just a little chink of their own struggle, it becomes all about my story. We think we're encouraging them. But they just shut down. Or we start to give them all the advice that we know that they need to hear.
When actually they first need to be heard and honored. As we listen, we might find the advice that we thought they needed is actually slightly different. God's way is slightly different in that situation. Another thing we can do is we can either minimize what someone is doing, or maximize it.
We can either say, "Oh, that's not such a big deal. Don't worry. You're going to feel better about it tomorrow." Or we say, "Oh my word, that is so hectic." And the other person wishes they can take their words back? Our responses communicate messages even when we don't intend them to.
It's so important that we do that. As we are going on this journey of being trained in counselling, you also don't want to be this syrupy, intense counsellor who now wants to get into the intense stuff of the heart. And the person thinks, "oh, I just had a bit of a difficult day."
It's such a fine balance. And I think just being aware as level one counsellors, we can respond in really helpful ways. I actually want to give you a few of them that were from the clip. These are some of the positive ones.
It would be answers like these: It sounds like you're a little down. You're not feeling so good? Gives the person an opportunity to expand if they want to. You don't look yourself. Would you like to share what's been happening? Sorry to hear about that.
Did something happen to upset you? Or sounds like a rough day. It's invitations for people to open up. Invitations for them to respond in a way that they feel comfortable. So that's level one counseling and I am so excited that we would grow the number of people who would be able to be this for others in the church.
Level Two Counselling: Applying Biblical Truth with Wisdom
A level two counsellor would be someone that is a little bit more equipped than the average saint. Who is "one-anothering" well and loving well. It's somebody that has more of a mature walk in the Lord and is able to understand how biblical truth can be applied to practical situations.
Who wishes that the scripture had black and white the answer to every single situation you have? It does have a lot, but there are some things that are not quite as black and white, but need biblical wisdom applied in particular work situations, relational situations.
And a level two counselor has got the experience and knowledge to be able to do that. So it would involve a little bit more counsel and direction and teaching into what is God's way forward for that person. In Judges 21:25, it says, "Every man did that which was right in his own eyes."
And I think for many of us, if we're very honest, we know what to do. It is a huge milestone to recognize the humility that God requires in saying that I want to submit what I think is right underneath what You say is right, Lord.
We are bombarded all the time with secular understanding, with psychological theories that actually have really good intentions, but are sometimes just a little bit off. Just a little bit off the plumb line of the scripture and how God would want us to respond.
So, a level two counselor holds that very seriously. When you are building a relationship with somebody and there's safety, a level two counselor has the ability to make a person feel safe and comfortable to open up. So they know that this is a place where I won't be judged.
And I will be able to be helped. And there's empathy and the person's emotions are truly understood and space is made. Once they are there, the deeper issues begin to surface. And what is underneath is able to rise up and to be examined and to be explored together.
It's so important that our own beliefs are not "right in our own eyes" as we just read in Judges. It says, "every man" has that. I found it so powerful in my own life, having done much secular study, in my early years as a Christian.
Having to take my secular study and really compare it to what I find in His Word. And to face those things honestly. Even though my secular study or even my own emotional desire for that person to experience happiness or to be relieved of something, comes second to the path of life that's laid out here.
Some of our beliefs can actually guide the counsel or direction that we give. They might just be very strongly held opinions. No matter how good they might sound, they actually might be doing more harm than good. So, I would love us to take some time in your small group to talk about those.
What are some of the strongly held beliefs? Either that you've heard around you, or that you even might hold yourself, that can impact your level 2 counseling. I would love to have been a fly on the wall to hear what some of those strongly held opinions in your group were.
It's so important that we bring those to our awareness. Some of those beliefs are so subconscious. And they only come out when we're faced with situations or problems that people face. Our own opinion comes forth instead of the biblical pattern and the biblical way.
Some of our opinions could be based on our own experiences. Self protective responses to situations, controlling responses to situations. It could be that I have a faulty theology regarding prosperity. Or the nature of God. Or how grace works. There are so many areas that we need to make sure that we are holding to the biblical plumb line.
When we are challenging our belief systems to ask ourselves, "Is this just a human tradition or my feeling about something or is this really God's way?" We are being responsible with how we're leading and loving others. A level two counselor is able to look within and challenge their own beliefs.
Then able to create a safe environment, use the skills of listening, empathy, which we're going to teach later, reflective listening. And help the person to explore what's below the surface. With a background and a framework of understanding as to why people do and think and feel the way that they do.
Level Three Counselling: Trained Help for Complex Issues
It's so important that as level 2 counselors we don't just look at behavior but we're able to go a little deeper into the roots. Lastly, a level three counsellor would be someone that is more gifted and trained in the area of counselling and in the complexities of the human condition.
Aren't humans complex? I know I am and most people around me have got complexities. It is so much more than an understanding of what we see and our behavior. It's actually what's below. So, a level three counselor is someone like a professional. But also some gifted people within the church body who have been trained up.
Who are walking accountably. Who are affirmed by leadership around them as well to have this gift on their lives. And who have got a track record of being able to help people effectively in the area of overcoming areas and issues in their lives and finding the Lord's pathway.
Broad Guidelines for Biblical Counselling
So let's have a look at some broad guidelines for biblical counseling. In the previous clips, we've looked at different levels of counseling within the church. Level one, two, and three. I hope that every one of you are encouraged that you can at least fit into one of those.
And every single one of those levels are crucial for people to come into freedom. And every one of them is a tool that God intends to be used. And then we also had a look at what is the goal of biblical counselling: not to just make us happy and to be free of everything that's difficult, but to really honour God and to please Him in how we live and how we respond.
And then we also looked at what a church community is meant to be. What God's intention is in a church community. And that it's in this safe, open, secure environment that many people come into freedom without official counseling sessions.
Broad Guidelines for Biblical Counselling
Isn't that a beautiful gift? It's His design. And so let's have a look at what broad guidelines for biblical counseling are. Firstly, what a counsellor is not. A counsellor is not someone who has all the answers to every single situation. I find it the most freeing thing to be able to say, "I'm actually not so sure about what to say to you right now."
Can I get back to you? It's this most freeing thing. People value honesty. It is really important that we can live with humble hearts that say, "I am in the journey of learning. I need some time either to pray into this or get some other perspective as to what would God's way of life be for you?"
You know that scripture about "He has a path of life." What is His path of life for you right now? For me one of the scariest qualities in someone who is counseling or discipling somebody is someone who thinks they know all the answers.
They are not getting outside perspective, and are not led themselves. In our environment there's a lot of accountability and I will be walking with others who counsel others. When that counselor is not asking for another perspective or extra input and they are pretty convinced that they've got the answer, that's the most scariest place for me. Because the scripture talks about there's wisdom in many counselors. There's wisdom in much advice. That quality, as much as it might feel like you are letting the side down, it's actually a very important quality to say, "I don't have all the answers."
A Biblical Counsellor Is Not a Prophet
Another thing a biblical counselor is not: a biblical counselor is not a prophet. Now, absolutely, there is the gift of prophecy. And often I find when I am counseling, the Lord gives me discernment or a prophetic insight into what's happening in the person's life.
But I think it's the way that the gift is used that is different in counseling. Not the power; the power is still there, and just being able to get discernment as to what a key is or what a root is is so powerful and fruitful.
But in counseling what you're doing is you're coming alongside somebody. And you're actually helping them to find that place themselves. To find that way themselves. And to feel embraced as they open everything up. Free to be able to actually be honest about what they really think and feel.
And then to be able to reflect to them what the Lord has spoken about. It is important that we see the difference there. Another thing that a biblical counselor is not, is not someone who has all rehearsed answers and the same answer for those 10 people.
A Biblical Counsellor Is Not the One Who Brings Success
Very important that we don't do that. Take the time to genuinely listen and have concern. This is quite a tricky one. Another thing that a biblical counselor is not, is not someone who brings success to a situation. I remember in my varsity years, we started counseling quite early.
I studied social work and we were given different cases to work with. I was given a family in quite a difficult situation. I was very young and very zealous and I drew up this whole plan. This is what we're going to do to fix their finances, to fix their parent-child relationships, to fix the marriage. I had written all these things out and I was so zealous. Then I remember sitting with my supervisor and she said, "They are not really going to do any of these things." I thought, "What? There are such great solutions. Aren't they keen for change?" She was so wise, because over time I saw nothing actually had changed. I hadn't gotten into their world and heard what they really wanted, where they were at in their motivation for change. So, I'm not the person who brings about success in terms of my goals.
I need to understand where each person is at. And then on the other side, I'm also not the person who brings about success. Because it's actually as the person learns to access the Lord Himself, that's where change and success happens. So much talking and sharing and safety happens in the times that I'm with people.
But I find true change really happens as I come with them into the presence of God. And they're able to pour those things out that we've uncovered. And they are able to bring them to Him, find the comfort that He promises. The divine exchange happens and something shifts.
And it's in the presence of God that change happens. That is what keeps our hearts in the right place. This is not about us. It's not about our ability or success rate. It is truly about Him. Another thing is, sometimes we take so much responsibility.
"If I just don't let them do this" or "if I make them do that." When we take that kind of responsibility often it doesn't really follow through into the person's own ownership. We're going to talk a lot about that in sessions to come.
About helping people with motivation for change and working at their pace. But having guidelines for our counseling is important so that we know what to expect. Another part of biblical counseling that's important is that we don't just look at the fruit of someone's behavior, what we see on the outside.
We know that the scripture talks about our hearts. It's from our hearts that everything flows out of. In Proverbs it talks about our hearts being the source of all our behavior. And so biblical counseling is not just focused on getting correct behavior. So what is a counselor?
What a Biblical Counsellor Does: Safe Listening and Hope
Look at this picture. When you look at this picture, if you're like me, you'd say, "This just looks like a lovely place to be. It feels comforting, it feels safe." A biblical counselor is someone who will sincerely listen. They will create a safe space for this person to be heard and where there's not a fear of judgment.
Where the person can really be honest with what's really going on inside. Because that is what you want to happen. You want the person to be honest. Not that we soothe sin or we keep a person in a stuck place. But only when someone is actually able to honestly evaluate their own lives are we able to help that person to move forward from that place.
I hope that makes sense. We are there to offer comfort and to awaken hope. Often people are despairing. They've hit a place where they're saying, "I don't even know how to move forward. I've tried the same thing again and again, and I am just not moving forward.
And why is everybody else?" I've heard this so many times. People go, "Everyone looks so happy. They can't have the same issues as me." Meanwhile, if they're really new, most of us that are in the church have had to go through real deep waters of finding God for ourselves in struggles and trials.
But when people feel like no one understands quite what they are going through, our role is to awaken hope. There is hope that God can come through. Look at my life, look at others. God can bring breakthrough. And so that's our role. To help people to have hope and then to move forward step by step into becoming the person that God wants them to be.
Counsellor Responsibility and Personal Ownership
So under the broad guidelines for biblical counseling, I think it's really important to be able to look at what am I responsible for as a counselor and what am I not responsible for. I think it's such a blurry line because church is our life, like it's relationship.
We're not in an office where someone comes in for an hour and they go. It's lifestyle. It's in our community. This person is in our very homes at times. It is so important to look at what God says about what am I responsible for and what am I not responsible for.
So I would like to start in Galatians 6:5. "For each one will have to bear his own load." So there's an instruction there which talks about each believer needs to carry their own load. And the meaning of that word "load" is like a backpack.
What you would carry on a hike, just enough for your daily provision. So there's a guideline or an expectation from the scripture, which says we need to carry ourselves regardless of how tough our situations are. There's some basic things that God requires us to do, which will help us to walk out this journey.
That will definitely involve reading scripture, spending time in the Lord's presence, being part of a church community. There are some basics that are very important, which are part of us bearing our own load. But then earlier, in Galatians 6:2 it says, "bear one another's burdens and so fulfill the law of Christ."
If you have a look at this picture. This is a picture of someone who's helping someone else carry something that is just too overwhelming to do on their own. That is what biblical counseling sometimes involves. You find somebody who is facing a block in their road or an obstacle in their road which just feels too much.
Like I can't do it on my own. That is where our role as counselors is to help them to bear it. There are many people in the church. That's the beauty of the church. It is not just you as the counselor. There are people discipling them.
There are people in the community that we bear their burden while they are carrying their daily load. This is so important. For us as counselors and especially mercy motivated people, we can be so drawn in. I just remember years ago being so very involved in a very intense counseling and deliverance situation with a young woman in the church.
I would barely be able to be in prayer meetings because she was there and I was so consumed with how she was doing. And I could see she was struggling. It became something that was all consuming for me. I realized over time, that I could bear the burden, but she would need to carry her own load.
There was a limit to how much I could do. That is very important for us and can be freeing for us. It is sometimes difficult to know where that line is. That is where getting perspective from someone further down the road than you is important.
Also, as you walk with someone, really allowing them to take responsibility for what they need to take responsibility for. Because there's a great power in a person accessing the person of Christ for themselves as they are wrestling with their own challenges.
Angela is married to Brad, and they have three children. Together, they serve on leadership within, and they have led Oxygen Life Church since 2002. They relocated to Australia in 2025 to work into King and Saints Church. Angela has a degree in social work and is a trained counsellor and author.












